This is a very interesting question, Heidi. I know this is something that you have struggled with in your life and are constantly having either epiphanies or the blues about it. What I have to offer on the subject is nothing towards light. In fact what I'm about to give is most likely going to just add more questions, but in either case, this is my opinion as it relates to myself. I find myself, not necessarily in a struggle.. more of a want, to be more feminine in an earthy way. For those of you that know me, you know I'm not hard core organic, I don't like the smell of paciulli and I don't really like tie-dye. But I do like the idea of being natural and healthy, I love scents that are different from the normal scents we smell every day and I love all things that are beautiful. Even things that are "groteskly" beautiful. I love colors, especially when you think they won't go well together but they have a certain harmony that merits a second glance. Just as in nature. When I think of beautiful things and see beautiful things and know that certain parts of me are beautiful - even if just in concept - I feel like the ultimate feminine. Sublimely sexy. I move differntly, I think differently, I react to situations differently. I'm more relaxed.. more natural. These beautiful things, whatever they may be, make me want to embrace the feminine in me. They make me want to do crazy things that awaken my soul. They make me want to do, sometimes monotonous, things - like make my husband dinner. Or run until I'm really sweaty. One of my fantasy's is to go to Africa and dance with the women of a tribe around a fire. Moving and jerking and flailing my body - kicking up dust and not caring that I look ridiculous. Those kinds of ridiculous, monotonous and silly things make me feel powerful. And not in a "I'm going to take over the world" kind of powerful. But in a "I am strong, and I am beautiful, and I am sexy, and I am intelligent" kind of powerful. This 'state of mind' allows me to forget everything and everyone. I don't compare myself, to other women or to men. I don't seek approval from men, which women do very often. I find myself in a place that is quiet, and unjudging, and is closer to God than any other place I know. It gives me a sense that God is allowing me to enjoy what He's given me in it's most pure form. It feels full. And it makes me feel very very feminine.I don't believe that feeling powerful is a sin. I think you should embrace that feeling, Heidi. You should explore that and see where it leads you. If God has given you a sense of security knowing you can do many things others can't, or where others have fear you have courage, you shouldn't deny that because you're afraid people are going to think you're too pushy or invasive. Especially if you think men will feel your are too pushy or invasive. You are a person by definition first. Then you are a woman. Embrace yourself - don't let that second definition tie you down to a life where you feel repressed. Use that definition of woman and follow what God has taught us about ourselves. That we can bare children, that we can evolve, that we are beatiful no matter what the package. If God wanted to make us the same as a man, He would have made us men. But He didn't - we're different. (That said, make sure you let God rule your life and not you... it's an interesting balance being a believer isn't it?)How this fits in to the question of "How are woman and men innately different?" I don't really know. Do men have this peace? Do they feel sublimley masculine sometimes? Is it measured not by male/female but person to person? I of course am asking more questions than I'm answering and for that I apologize, but I hope this explaination of my feminine either gives courage or at least lifts the fog a little.

Quartz, Thank you for your wisdom! I think feeling "powerful" is great if the empowerment comes from God and He's given the glory. But, I don't feel powerful at all! I feel parazlied cause I hold back the parts of myself that may not fall into the culturally Christian ideals of femininity. I am refreshed by your earthiness...I like that you help people feel comfortable with themselves. And I love that you see beauty in the strangest places...namely...the photo of the rat chewing the mattress filling!P.S. My idea to keep this blog less personal just took a nose dive. Oh well!

Sorry for the personal nature of my last blog. :) I will refrain from name usage now on. I do have a comment on what you've just said, however. And that is I don't feel it's necessary to "hold back the parts of anyone's self that may not fall into the culturally Christian ideals of femininity." I have seen many women express their femininity through their faith and people praise them for it. Does anyone remember the woman that would always do interpretive dance at 82nd street? That was something even I thought, "whoa" about. Not because we were in church, but because I thought it was a little cheesy. :) But then I realized she was using her body as a praise to God and she was showing everyone 'this is a way that God and I speak to eachother and I want to share it with you.' Unfortunatly there are places and people in the church that try to hinder a woman's femininity, but I don't think that's God's doing. As long as YOU know you are in communion with God and God is speaking to YOU through whatever your actions or words are then don't hold back. God will use that connection with you to touch people even if you're scared of their reactions. God gave us a free world. Free. You are not confined to one section of this earth. I believe that just as the earth has many many different seasons and weathers and lights and darks, so does God. Go and seek God and talk with Him in a place different than your every day life. (This "place" may be physical or mental.)I know the argument "there is a time and place for everything." And I fully back that up, but if you're in a situation where you (and all these "you's" are directed to the cosmos not to one person) feel your faith is being interupted so to speak and you don't feel you can fully express yourself in the place you are, perhaps you need to go to another place that is more accepting. And that place could be somewhere simple, like your living room or on trail in the woods. Or more substanial like a different church. But find that place. If you feel this sense of urgency that you really want to speak with and commune with God but you don't feel you can where you are, you need to get somewhere where you can. Because God wants you and He has something to say to you. Forget about feminine, masculine ideals and how those play a roll in today's Christianity. Remember God, talk with Jesus. They'll make you feel sublimely feminine.

Thankfully, the guy that reopened this issue was not from NewCity and he was a bit older. Thanks again for your love. I could use a good Michigan hike.

Thanks SIS,Here is my shot! I have a comment because I came across this issue in Asia, in Africa and here in the US. How do you decide to have a view on a certain issue? What factors shape your view on a given subject? Is it the Scripture? History? Your own experience(i know this could be part of history)? Or other people's influence? I think senstive issues like this should be addressed as objectively as possible. But If History is the most important element in shaping our view we can have a different view than the person who makes the Scripture fully shape his view. enough with preaching here is my view regarding gender issues:1. The early Jews thank God for Three things: because they are not Gentiles, Slaves or Women. Paul responds to this in Galatians 3:28-29 that there is no ethnic, gender, or class difference in Christ. The Bible puts men and women equal. But what about those difficult passages? three views: Most of the passages except 1Timothy 2 are very cultural to the biblical/hellenistic times.But in 1Timothy 2 Paul talks about the Woman relatioship to man from the perspective of Godly headship. Godly headshhip is neccessary because of the order of creation and the reality of sin. My Conclusion is this if any woman asks a question, "how do I demonstrate Godly headship in my life?" and find answer for it I do not care whatever she does. But it should be a responsibility of every woman to answer that question before the Lord.Some people use history to come up with their view. I See two problems with that. 1. This generation is not responsible to what happened to women in the last generation.2. Men have done many things through out history in oppressing women and the Bible is not responsible for that. I hope you can see where my views are coming from and tried to walk the thing rope.Sorry if I offended someone!Workihsa

Heidi, you come up with some good discussion starters. I appreciate your comments on this topic. I don't know that I will have any answers but thought I would offer some additional thoughts to frame the topic.In Engish theory class, much to my shock, I learned about things such as postmodernism and deconstruction and essentialism. Those terms are way complicated and my memory could not do them justice, but I remember that much postmodern thought attacks the notion that there are any "essential" qualities to things like gender, but instead that notions of gender are plastic and socially conditioned. I can certainly agree with this to a fairly high degree, but some thinkers wanted to push this so far as to say almost that even biological differences are only social and/or personal constructions.That, of course, is nonsense. There is a biological basis for gender. I tend to view it as two bell curves side by side that are connected, with most men and women falling somewhere under the large "bell" portion of their respective curve. And, this means there are people who biologically fall somewhere in the middle.On a psychological level it gets more complicated, as what we identify as "gender" traits can appear across the map, though, I think some of the differences in emotions and communication map, which you point out in your post, map pretty well to the bell curves, at least in our culture. And culture I think is a strong determinant in how we frame gender roles and notions of what is feminine and what is masculine, or more importantly, what is not and should not be displayed by a particular gender. For example how would weeping Joseph and emotional David from the Old Testament fit in with our culture's notion of masculinity. And David, by any account, was surely a warrior stud, as well as being a passionate poet. This is getting to be a long comment, but I am guessing that my comment and this discussion in general may lead to the question of homosexuality, speaking as we are about gender socialization. Very briefly, I would allow that there may be a genetic basis for homosexuality possibly in some cases (though is not definitivel proven despite what the press might tell you), but that the environment and particularly early childhood experiences with parents of the same and different gender are far more causative of it. Perhaps the development of one's femininity or masculinity also works in this way. As a side note, in the case of homosexuality, I think childhood abuse is also a significant causative factor. Good lectures here by Winter and Williams: http://www.covenantseminary.edu/resource/ResultDetail.asp?rPage=L&slType=Topic&UID=187Can of worms opened!

Thanks Workisha and Neil! I am really thankful for your input! Yes, the root of homosexuality issue is another one that I think about a lot. I do think there is often link between childhood abuse and homosexuality, as you have said. I have some good literature on it that looks that offers several vantage points. I am always happy to pass good books along. I think the more I wrestle with these gender issues the more God says...Heidi, I'm not going to give you a formula that you can "get right", instead, I've given you the Holy Spirit that will counsel and train you. Today he used all of you that responded! Big toothy smile to all of you! I guess I just need to not get hung up on my insecurities about not getting things right so that I can hear the counsel. And…until God does something drastic, I will aggressively love batman over pretty pony!

Oh Heidi, I'm still trying to think of a way to answer your question. Can you ask me a gender question that's a wee bit more specific? I love the egg-warming imagry! It cracks me up because you are soooooooo into babes/pregnency these days--hey that's a pretty femanine passsion...or is it?

Here's one Lar-rah-loo! What are the first 5 attributes that come to mind when you think femininity? Now, are those attributes supported by scripture? That may be a tough one. Or how about this… the next time a guy asks me if “I am a bit aggressive for a woman” should I ask him how gingerly he thinks Jael stabbed the tent peg through Sisera’s temple? KIDDING…Really though, last night, I wrote out as many women I could from the Bible, and looked at their lives…you’ve got some great role models there. I was especially drawn to Deborah, Aquila, and Pricilla.

Here are two femanine desires that I believe diverge from males. 1. A desire to have a child2. A desire to be thought beautiful (I guess a guy desires to be good-looking but I think it's a little different with woman...eh, I'm not sure?)That's a start at least. The next task for me is to find Biblical backing to support the validity of these "femanine" desires.

Alright Heidi, you win, i'm posting a comment. I guess it's more of a comment to a comment...but i'm so glad to hear that you're looking at the lives of the different women in the Bible to see what you can learn from them. So often I feel like we're directed back to the Proverbs 31 woman and to Ruth, and we don't look much at other women or even teaching that is directed towards women in the scriptures. I would love to hear more about what you're learning as you look at the lives of these women and I think you've inspired me to do some studying of my own.

Claire, Oh my yes study on! I have been really encouraged by looking at the different lives of woman in the Bible. There's SO much diversity in how they lived out God's will. I am looking into Naomi right now. I'll keep ya posted. As Jennie B. was saying, I should give "Captivating" a fair read. Have you read it?

And, Heidi, I must tell you that your comments per post ratio is fantastic. It is 5.125 comments per post. Also, related to this post, I am beginning to suspect that women bloggers tend to have a much better comment to post ratio, which would support what seems to be the consensus here that they tend to be more relational, communicative, and interconnected than men.This is not a scientific survey by any means (especially as Kirk writes some of the posts on Newlywards), however, I did a calculation of all the comments per post for men and women bloggers on the site and here are the results. Drum roll, please.........................................................................................................................................................................Male authors: 1.6 comments per postFemale authors: 4.7 comments per postFor my theory to be correct, most of those commenters will have to have been women, but it ain't a bad start.

Sorry, I left out that my survey was done on St. Louis Blogs using this page:http://stlouisblogs.org/index.php?s=n

Oh Neil! This is great to know. And, to support the survey and your observations, most of the comments on my blogs ARE from woman! I also think there is something to the fact that woman tend to be more relationally connecty. Perhaps, the way women build conversations plays a part? Maybe personality types play a role? I love thinking about such things! Neil, you are SO blessed with the gift of researching fascinating things!

Heidi, et al. I direct your attention to this post, which humorously, with a dash of seriousness, discusses women in the OT. The author is soon moving to St. Louis and her and the author of the blog Junkmail for Blankets, Jeremy Huggins, are soon to be wed.http://listlistolist.blogspot.com/2006/06/rahab.html

Her post on OT women is GRRRRREAT! Way too good not to pass along!

Neil, I also enjoyed the post on women in the OT, thanks for sharing. Heidi, I have read Captivating and I enjoyed it...it was a while ago and I can't remember a lot of specifics but that book actually came to mind when I read Laura's post regarding the difference between desires that men and women have. The author talks a lot about the desire that we as women have to be thought beautiful. I wish I could remember more but I haven't read that book in a while and I think my roomate has it right now.